Patti's After-Party: Actor James Woods Teams Up With Bob Wayne and Shooter Jennings on New Single "The Hearts of Men"

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Video Premier: "When Waylon Came To Nashville" by Waylon Hanel

Most people know James Woods as an actor, a very fine actor. That’s how I knew him. His legendary roles as the slimy pimp Lester Diamond in Martin Scorsese’s Casino or gangster Max Bercovicz aka Max Endowment in 1984’s Once Upon a Time in America solidified Woods as not just a tremendous actor, but also a superb villain. While I’m not sure that he always intended to become known for his villainous characters, he certainly did excel with them, even playing the slick-talking master of sarcasm and explosive moods, Hades, in Disney’s animated classic Hercules in 1997.

So imagine my surprise and confusion when I received an email asking if I would care to interview James Woods about his new music. I admit, I was behind. I had no idea he wrote and recorded songs, but he’s been doing it for a little while now. What’s interesting and actually pretty cool, is he does all this with outlaw country artist and producer Shooter Jennings. Jennings is the son of the late iconic outlaw country star Waylon Jennings and the crazy-talented singer/songwriter Jessi Colter. Whether Shooter Jennings was born with all that great musical ability thanks to his DNA, or he just picked it up along the way is a debate for another time, but it bears mentioning that although he comes from country music royalty, it became apparent upon speaking with Woods that he’s really just a very regular guy who happens to be good at what he does. 

I can’t express how much I enjoyed this interview. When Woods called me, I picked up the phone to hear, “Hey Patti, Jimmy Woods!” After being given the PR warning to be sure to focus on music and avoid politics, keeping it all to 20 minutes or less, I was a little more guarded than I usually am. I had absolutely no fear that I’d go off the deep end and break those rules, but I did brace myself in case Woods came off as stern or humorless. He was neither of those at all. In fact, when he greeted me in the manner that he did, I was so taken aback, I said, “Oh, so we’re Jimmy?” He laughed and replied, “Well, that’s what I am to my friends, and since all of my California buddies moved to Nashville, I figured we might already be friends.” You bet, we can be friends for sure now.

Now that I was breathing easy, I got right to the music because 20 minutes goes by so fast when you’re doing an interview. I listened to his new single, “The Hearts of Men” over the weekend before our chat and it really impressed me. If you’ve ever heard or been into some of Johnny Cash’s spoken word songs, this was reminiscent of those. As I drank in the song, I quickly learned that as a lyricist, Woods is brilliant. His words require careful listening, probably more than one time if you really want to absorb what he’s trying to say. A poet in every sense, but also someone who harbors profound intelligence while being a remarkable observer of the human race, that’s James Woods.

“The Hearts of Men” is the recently released single that will be included on his upcoming album, THE KILLER’S WIFE, set to drop October 9th. Nobody can describe the history of the song better than Woods himself, so let’s allow him to do that right now.

He began, “So, I’m not a bible thumper, but I read the bible for many reasons, obviously it’s a source of comfort, but as an artist I found that the storytelling is so looming and powerful. Considering it was written 2000 years ago, it’s astonishing how relevant it is today. The title of the song came from something I’d read, an amended quote from the Book of Matthew 24:12, which is: ‘When inequity or when wickedness shall abound, the hearts of men shall wax cold,’ and I thought, ‘Wow, that’s such a great viewpoint about what is happening in the world today. It’s not about the divisiveness as much as the coldness of men’s hearts, of human beings’ hearts. If we don’t find a way to reach and connect with each other in any other way than vitriol and hate and war and murder, civilization will not survive.’ One of my favorite songs ever was ‘Hurt’ (Nine Inch Nails cover) by Johnny Cash. In his later years he was so powerful and raw.”

 ‘Hurt’ appeared on Cash’s American IV: The Man Comes Around album from 2002 which was highly impactful due to its autobiographical characteristics. The project was produced by Rick Rubin and John Carter Cash. The list of those involved in its creation reads like the VIP guest list at a music production event. Included in the credits are Billy Preston, Fiona Apple, Nick Cave, Mike Campbell and Don Henley. The record would be the final release of Cash’s lifetime. 

Woods continued, “There’s an homage to ‘The Man Comes Around’ in my song ‘The Hearts of Men.’ The Cash song says, ‘Hear the trumpets hear the pipers, one hundred million angels singin’,’ and mine goes, ‘Hear now the voices of one million angels strong.’ The line is close to his and that’s on purpose. I said to Shooter, ‘We should all sing this like it’s a choir.’ He answered, ‘Exactly.’ So instead of being perfectly in sync, we sing it like a group of people singing at church, on key, but not singing perfectly together. We did that on purpose. Actually Shooter’s doing backup with me and we’ve got John Schreffler, our pedal steel player. We just all jumped in and did that. I had a bigger part in doing the backup with Bob Wayne, and of course the spoken part.”

“Among other things, this song is meant to be a conclusion to the whole battle of good and evil theme surrounding my upcoming album’s true story. It’s the story of a serial killer’s wife, and by the way, it’s based on a real experience of mine. I can’t reveal names because I want to protect her privacy, but it happened in real life. I was involved with a woman who was a serial killer’s wife, and keep in mind I was very young, about 20 years old. So this final song is a prophecy as well, because at the very end in ‘The Hearts of Men - Epilogue’ I say, ‘And when again that may happen again, let this story be told.’ It’s very important to understand that that is where we are today. For folks that haven’t heard it, I basically say, ‘Come sit with me on the quiet shore, light pushing through the clouds, feel his hand upon your shoulder, his son beneath the shroud, that sacrifice will be there always when the hearts of men grow cold, and when again that may happen again, let this story be told.’”

It’s quite powerful and intense, but when you break it all down after listening to it intently, it’s not difficult to understand. We can’t ignore what’s happening in society or our hearts will grow cold, we’ll become numb to the changes taking place and before long, life as we know it will be lost. The complete dismantling of the country we call home and all we love. Dismantling and finally destruction. Where does that leave us? We all need to clear our minds and think hard about this. Listening to “The Hearts of Men” is a good place to begin. The poetry of the song doesn’t dress up the meaning, it gives it force. It’s an important piece of art.

The team behind “The Hearts of Men” didn’t initially plan on doing any press or advertising for the song or the soon-to-be-released album, and you might call them “old school” as far as how they approach the making of music. They turn their backs on AI and autotune, which Woods says they never use and that “it’s absolutely a requirement of ours” to keep all that out of the whole process. Admirable for sure and he elaborated, “It’s great musicians making great music. I wrote every single word of every album. Shooter and Bob do the music. I’ve actually written one of the songs on the next album. The musicians are always the same because I love them. They’ve been so devoted to me since I was starting out. I never play with anybody else but those who are with me, unless we add more people. I try to write provocative lyrics that spark introspection and the examination of our place in the world, or the celestial universe, if you will. I know that sounds like a big deal, but it’s important, I think, to look beyond ourselves, that’s all we’ve ever done as people. From the times primitive people looked at the moon and realized maybe it’s not the eye of God, but maybe it’s a celestial planet. They didn’t know what it was, but they started to question it and we’re still looking for our place in the universe, whether it’s the physical universe or a more spiritual realm.”

“I think mankind has always sought to find our place among the higher angels. I use a lot of that imagery in my writing. I think people do get it and I’m glad that in explaining it you got what you got, and you got it in spades. I’m really appreciative of how much you understand and appreciate what we’re trying to share with all of you.” 

I responded by saying, “I do get it and I definitely appreciate it. I think a lot of people are going to appreciate it because we’re just in kind of a weird time right now where I think we’re all looking for something a little bit deeper to figure out how we got here.” That was the springboard to our discussion about country music and how it all fits into the greater plan of the lyrics.

Listen to “The Hearts of Men” by clicking HERE.

James Woods remarked, “I’ve always said that rock and roll came from the blues, but it really came from the blues and country music. I’m new to country compared to other people. I didn’t grow up in the south, and I was Roman Catholic. I grew up in New England and all over. My father was an Army guy. I grew up in Guam and I was born in Utah. I was almost born in Texas because my mom was pregnant with me in Brownsville and Lubbock.” He laughed and added, “If I could have been born a little earlier, I could have been the Lone Star guy and I would have had it made.” 

I fully related to what he shared. I wasn’t born and raised in the south, I was from New York. I didn’t grow up in the bible belt and was Roman Catholic just like Woods. Everyone I knew was Catholic in the northeast. I didn’t know a thing about other religions until I was much older. So much of country music relies on scripture and has a very biblical focus, that’s pretty much foreign territory in Catholicism. I had to learn a lot when I dove into the country genre and it wasn’t just about moonshine and pickup trucks. My then-teenage daughter turned me on to country music and once it got its hooks in me, I dove in and wanted to know everything about it.

“The great thing about country, and I can’t imagine how wonderful it is to be used to it and to always have known it, but what’s great is when you come to it, it’s almost like this story I’m going to tell you,” Woods said. 

“I have a friend who was almost murdered in Iraq and was saved by the American forces. I asked them, ‘How do you feel about America?’ They replied, ‘When I got here I got on my knees and kissed the ground. I love America so much that I weep every day when I wake up, and now I’m an American citizen.’ I thought, ‘That’s what we need.’ It was such a beautiful way to express your love for this country.”

I agreed, we’re experiencing a strange era where there are those who passionately cherish being Americans and those who seem to dislike everything about it, and for me, it’s disheartening at best. Of course, I was cautious about adding any commentary that might be considered political, so I allowed Woods to do most of the talking. It was a wise decision because he was really attempting to tie country music into the whole subject of what it means to love America. So let’s let him do that.

He shared, “I’ve always said there are two kinds of poets, the ones that write poetry and the ones that read poetry and appreciate it. I think if you love country music you can understand. I never thought I was a singer. You know, I was kind of afraid to sing and these guys (his musical team) got me into it.” He laughed and added, “When I was about 16 or 17, my high school friend Steve asked me, ‘Did you hear this guy Bob Dylan? What the heck? How is this guy even allowed to be on the radio? He can’t sing at all, but listen to the music.’ So I listened to it and I said, ‘Yeah, the words are kinda cool.’ But the point being, there aren’t even margins anymore. The truths and power behind country music, man, it can make you cry or make you cry for joy, and that’s the thing I love about it and I love writing that way.”

He went on to tell me about a song he has on an album that won’t release until sometime next year, an Americana song. He told Bob Wayne that he wanted to write a song to celebrate America, a “kickass” song. The song ended up being called “America Where Have You Gone?” This man is as patriotic as they come and he detailed how this tune came to be. “In true fashion, I tried to write a kickass song, but unfortunately, the truths of where we are seeped into it. It’s a celebration of those of us who want America stronger than ever and love this country so much, but we’re not afraid to say when we’re in trouble, and we’re in trouble. We need to have good old America back and boy, if you wanna find good old America, listen to country music and let’s find the way home.”

Was it political to say that I agreed and that it’s my belief that the power of country music lies in its storytelling and authenticity, and yes, the love of America? If so, I just broke the rules, because I did say that. I don’t consider it political, but in today’s unusual world, some might. 

Woods absolutely concurred, but stressed that it doesn’t mean there aren’t things we can do better. “If you believe there aren’t things we can do better, you’re kidding yourself, we can always do better.” He mentioned that no matter where you are in life, you have to take stock in what’s going on around you. “Whether you’re a husband, wife, child, parent, whatever, and certainly as a patriot and a member of your whole nation, you can do better.” That’s true, but what he said next was “out of the ballpark” material. He took the conversation to a different plane, and I know in my heart that he meant every word he said and had somehow been itching to get it out there. It's a rare thing for me to feel honored to hear something so completely significant from the horse’s mouth, over the phone, in my own home, but it happened.

He started off, “This drives me crazy, when people can’t understand that quote, and you know I’m paraphrasing George Santayana (Spanish-American philosopher). ‘Those who ignore the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them,’ he said. The actual quote (or one of several variations of the supposed actual quote) is, “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Take it with a grain of salt, because the quote comes in many forms, but all of them have the same general meaning. Anyway, Woods went on, “That’s one of the things about growing older, I talk about wisdom and the wisdom is simply this, I’ve seen this before.”

“People say communism was never done right, and I say, well, that’s an understatement, because Stalin killed 25 million, Pol Pot killed millions (the general consensus is Pol Pot and his Khmer Rouge regime killed two million people), Mao Zedong killed 50 million or more. You wanna keep going? Ernesto ‘Che’ Guevara murdered people in their sleep, especially gays by the way, and women and Catholics and so on. These people are so stupid that they cannot pick up a history book and understand that we’ve been here before and it only ends one way. Ever. It’ll only end one way if we keep it up around here.” I said, “Don’t I know it, but I was warned, don’t bring up politics, but since you brought it up, I agree with you.”

Woods responded, “Oh, I’ll bring it up happily, but it isn’t political, I’m being a humanist here. The only reason I say to keep the politics out is because people kind of know where I stand about these things and believe it or not, I’m right in the middle if I believe in the Constitution and I believe in obeying the laws of the land, even if I disagree with them. Most people don’t see it that way, but that’s not right wing or left wing, it’s right down the middle. I love America.”

With time ticking, all I could say was that he was just being a good human who loves America and that’s really all we need is more people like him, but it just doesn’t work out that way all the time. I did say this though, “I do love that you’re saying all of this with music. By the way, how did you get hooked up with Shooter Jennings?” I think I hit the jackpot when I asked that and I was truly interested to know.

“We literally met in a restaurant,” shared Woods, “because my wife and I (now he’s laughing) and he and his wife were the only two couples there at 5:00 pm in the afternoon, having an early dinner like the old folks we are! They’re sitting there and I’m like, 'Those two are probably rock and rollers. They look like they’ve been out all night and they’re having breakfast.' But of course, they’re actually wonderful family folks. Shooter takes care of his kids and then he gets home to have dinner with his family, it’s completely a Father Knows Best kind of thing. They’re wonderful people who have become our best friends.” Best friends that like to spread the love of creating music apparently and you’ll see why in what he related next.

“One time we were sitting there and I snagged my sweater and I looked down and said, ‘Did I do that? I did it with a callus I got from the guitar.’ Shooter said, ‘Oh, you play the guitar?’ I went, ‘Oh, no, no, no I don’t really. I just strum three chords at the campfire.’ ‘Yeah man, but you can turn a phrase. Did you ever think about writing lyrics?’ Literally that was the moment my entire life changed forever. That, and meeting my wife 10 years ago were the two big turning points in my life. F. Scott Fitzgerald once famously said, ‘There are no second acts in American lives,’ well, I’m here to prove him wrong. I don’t know if you know my wife Sara Miller-Woods, she’s at @millerita on Instagram and her photographs are unbelievable, everybody loves them. She’s also the art director on all the album covers and that’s why they’re so extraordinary.” 

He then shared details about his record label’s distributor, Select-O-Hits, who he’s so thankful to work with. Select-O-Hits was founded in Memphis by Sam and Tom Phillips of Sun Records back in 1960. Sam’s nephew Johnny Phillips is in charge of the business these days and James Woods can’t say enough good things about him and his crew. “I’m telling you these folks are so wonderful, and right there in Tennessee we’ve got Memphis Record Pressing (Bartlett, Tennessee). When THE KILLER’S WIFE comes out, for those of you who like to collect colored vinyl and specialty vinyl, we’re doing a thing called a ‘splatter’ album, because as I said earlier, the album is about a real story. Some of the victims in the story were buried in this beach area in the dunes. We did an album that uses translucent blue for the ocean and a beige opaque sand color, then splattered it with blood (red). Each record is made individually and is unique. So if you’re a collector, man, this is a work of art you can get. You can pre-order the album at jameswoods.com and you can order the vinyl I was just discussing.”

We had to wrap it up because our 20 minute time allotment was just about to expire. He was ready to do a live radio show “in about 70 seconds,” so he gave me a “quick Irish goodbye” and we agreed to talk again after the album comes out in October. Somehow, even after bidding me farewell, he managed to squeeze in just one more thing. “I really do want to talk to you some more, Patti, because there are a couple of songs on this album that are very provocative and I want to see what you think about them and see if you think people are going to be into them. There’s one on the record called ‘Man on the Radio,’ which I’m surprised we’re even getting on the airwaves ‘cause Shooter said it’s literally the wildest song he’s ever been involved with in his music experience.” I have to say, I’m intrigued. 

It was the fastest 20 minutes I can remember, but the content extracted in that short time sure was worthwhile. Sometimes I spend 20 minutes pulling in a hundred directions to get any tiny morsel of information from someone. This was me just doing what I do best, listening, learning and soaking it all in. I hope it worked that way for all of you too. 

Please visit James Woods on his website and on social media. Be sure to tell him Center Stage Magazine sent you!